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訪談全文中文逐字稿


Q1. The Cross-strait Trade in Services Agreement has become a contentious
issue in Taiwan. In the past few days, for example, students have occupied
the Legislative Yuan. Why do you think there is controversy over the
agreement?

Q1.兩岸服貿在台灣已成為爭議話題，像是最近這幾天學生佔領立法院
你認為服貿為何會存在爭議?

President Ma: In Taiwan, any matter that involves cross-strait relations will
cause some degree of contention. Domestically, we have not yet reached a
significant consensus on how we want to develop our relations with mainland
China.
The Trade in Services Agreement (TiSA) is part of the Cross-Straits Economic
Co-operation Framework Agreement (ECFA) that we signed with the mainland four
years ago. We had explained then that the ECFA is a big framework that would
cover trade in services and goods, settlement of disputes, and economic
co-operation.

馬：在台灣，任何與兩岸關係有關的事都會引發某種程度的爭議
國內尚未就如何發展與中國的關係達成重要共識。
服貿是4年前我們與中國簽訂的ECFA的一部分
當時我們就解釋過，ECFA是一個大型的架構
涵蓋服務與商品貿易、爭議和解以及經濟合作

The current situation is caused mainly by a misunderstanding among the public
that the TiSA was not put forth for public review. As a matter of fact, over
the past year or so, the government has held 110 rounds of talks with 46
different sectors. But because most were small-scale, the public might not
have known about them. At the same time, [relevant government agencies] have
briefed the Legislative Yuan three times, but critics argue that the
agreement would pose a major threat to Taiwan. For example, it would take
away job opportunities. But the TiSA will not open Taiwan’s job market to
mainland Chinese workers. Explicit restrictions are in place in Article 3 of
the agreement. Then some people say that it would jeopardise Taiwan’s
national security. In reality, Article 11 of the TiSA prescribes measures for
exceptions, that is, restrictions could be imposed if it involved national
security. Then there are others who say that the agreement showed disparity,
with Taiwan opening more sub-sectors to the mainland than vice versa. This is
not true either. Taiwan will be allowed access to 80 sub-sectors in mainland
China. Many other sub-sectors have not been included in the TiSA because
these had already been liberalised in 2001 [when the mainland joined the
World Trade Organisation].

目前的情況主要是因為大眾誤解，以為服貿沒有經過公共審議
但事實上在過去這1年間，政府已經與46個不同的產業舉行110輪的會談
然而因為大多數的會談規模偏小，民眾可能不曉得
同時相關的政府部會也三度在立法院發表簡報
但批評者卻指稱服貿會對台灣造成重大威脅，例如會奪走就業機會
但服貿並不會向中國勞工開放台灣的就業市場
這在服貿的第三條有明確禁止
然後有些人說，服貿會危及台灣的國家安全
事實上，服貿的第11條有規定例外措施
那就是當涉及國安時可以加以禁止
然後其他人又說服貿是不對等的開放
台灣向中國開放的產業比較多，這是不正確的
中國向台灣開放的產業共有80項
還有許多產業沒有被列入服貿當中
這是因為當中國在2001年加入WTO時就已經開放了

After the past several months of clarification, the true picture has become
very clear. The current situation has developed because of a dispute that has
arisen in the Legislative Yuan during deliberations over the TiSA. Ongoing
disputes between the two major political parties have led to this situation.
The best solution is to return to the original consensus. I believe there is
a chance that the issue could then be resolved.

經過幾個月的澄清後，真相已經變得非常清楚了
會演變成目前的狀況，是因為立法院內部在審議服貿時產生了爭議
兩黨間的爭端才導致了現在的局面
而最好的解決辦法是回歸原來的共識
我相信有機會解決這個爭議

Q2. What efforts will the government make to address the concerns of the
people?

Q2.為了解決人民的疑慮，政府會怎麼做?

President Ma: Last October, negotiations held between the ruling and
opposition parties concluded that the TiSA would be subject to an
item-by-item review and vote. The government too agreed with this approach.
However, public hearings on the TiSA took more than four months, causing a
lengthy delay. The different parties were concerned that this might cause
misgivings in the international community and wanted to speed up the process.

馬：去年十月，朝野協商決議服貿必須逐條審查與表決，政府也同意這個做法
但是服貿公聽會開了4個多月，時間拖太久
雙方都擔心這可能會引起國際社會的疑慮，希望程序可以加速進行

Since the debate began on March 10th, there have been many disagreements.
When Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) members were presiding over the
meeting, they did not allow Kuomintang (KMT) members to express their views.
When KMT members were presiding, DPP members occupied the podium. So
eventually, KMT legislators decided that they would follow the regulations
and deem the review to have been completed. I believe that such disputes
concerning legislative review should be resolved through the Legislature’s
internal negotiation mechanism. This would allow the review to proceed as
originally planned.

自從三月十日爆發爭議以來，就出現了很多歧異
當民進黨主持會議時，不准國民黨黨員表達他們的意見
換國民黨主持時，民進黨又佔據了講台
所以最後國民黨議員決定，按照法規來，視同已經完成立法院審查
我相信像這樣和立法審查有關的爭議，依該透過立法院內部協商機制來解決
如此一來審查可以照原先的規畫進行

Q3. Are there differing opinions of the TiSA within the Kuomintang?

Q3.國民黨內部對於服貿是否存在不同的意見?

President Ma: The KMT holds a unanimous view internally but differs greatly
from the opposition.

馬：國民黨內部看法一致，但和反對黨大相逕庭。

Q4. Some people say that Wang Jin-pyng has made no effort to push for the
passage of the TiSA. Do you agree?

Q4.有些人說王金平在推動通過服貿上沒有出力，你同意嗎?

President Ma: The KMT legislative caucus fully supports the TiSA. We can tell
from the meeting convened on March 18th. Because Wang is President of the
Legislative Yuan, he has to maintain a transcendent stance on all issues. Of
course he wants the TiSA to be passed. He has in the past openly expressed
support for the agreement. However, the procedure requires negotiations
between the ruling and opposition parties. I think the best way forward is
through internal legislative negotiation.
Similar disagreements have occurred in the past and have eventually been
resolved.
When we signed the ECFA four years ago, the Legislature was the scene of
fisticuffs. Some people were injured and sent for emergency treatment.
Therefore, I hope that people can remain calm and find a solution to the
issue. I believe that this can be resolved.

馬：國民黨在立法院的黨團全力支持服貿
從3月18日召開的會議就可見一斑
因為王金平身為立法院院長，在所有議題上他都必須保持超然立場
當然他也希望服貿能通過。以前他也曾公開表達對服貿的支持
不過依照程序，朝野兩黨必須進行協商
我認為最好的方法是透過內部立法協商
過去也曾發生過類似的歧異，最終都順利化解
4年前簽ECFA時，立法院打成一團，有些人受了傷，被送醫急救
因此我希望大家能保持冷靜，找出解決之道
我相信這是可以化解的

Q5. If the TiSA is not ratified soon, how will it impact Taiwan’s trade
relations with other countries and with mainland China?

Q5. 如果服貿不趕快通過
會對台灣與其他國家、與中國的貿易關係帶來怎樣的影響?

President Ma: If the TiSA is not ratified or if it has to be renegotiated, it
could have serious consequences and be detrimental to Taiwan’s interests.
External trade accounts for 70% of Taiwan’s economic growth. Taiwan has long
performed well in external trade, but in the past ten years or so, countries
around the world have signed free-trade agreements (FTA). Many countries want
to do business with Taiwan, but when it comes to signing a FTA with us, they
become hesitant, because of our diplomatic predicament.

馬：如果服貿不通過，或是必須重新協商
可能會帶來嚴重的後果，危及台灣的利益
對外貿易約占台灣經濟成長的70%，海外貿易長期以來一直是台灣的強項
但是大概最近10年，世界各國都開始簽自由貿易協定FTA
很多國家想和台灣做生意，但是一談到簽FTA就退縮
這都是因為我們的外交困境

We managed to sign the ECFA with mainland China four years ago, which made it
possible for us to sign an investment arrangement with Japan and economic
co-operation agreements (ECA) with New Zealand and Singapore. Our
international space has begun to expand. We also want to pursue similar deals
with the United States and the European Union, and join the Trans-Pacific
Partnership (TPP) and the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP).
However, if the TiSA is not passed, it would affect our signing of a trade in
goods agreement with mainland China. As well, the international community
would find it odd that Taiwan, while voicing an interest in joining in
regional economic integration, is stalling domestically because of procedural
issues. Our sincerity and determination would be questioned. Especially, if
after signing the deal with the mainland, we then reverse course, we would no
longer be creditable. We might be regarded as an unreliable trade partner.
This would be most unfavourable as regards our international participation.

4年前我們成功地和中國簽了ECFA
讓我們有可能和日本簽投資協議，和紐西蘭、新加坡簽經濟合作協議(ECA)
我們在國際間的活動空間開始擴大
我們也想和美國、歐盟達成類似的協議，也想加入TPP和RCEP
但是不通過服貿，就會影響和中國的貨貿
國際社會也會覺得奇怪
台灣一邊說想加入區域經濟整合，但國內卻因為程序問題一再拖沓。
我們的誠意和決心都會受到質疑
尤其是如果與中國簽了協議又反悔，我們就再也沒有信用可言
我們可能會被認為是不可靠的貿易夥伴
這在國際參與方面對我們最不利

Q6. Do you plan to meet with mainland Chinese leader Xi Jinping?
Q6.有打算和中國領導人習近平見面嗎?

President Ma: I have always maintained an open mind. Last year, we suggested
that we could arrange a meeting at the APEC summit so we could avoid the use
of official titles and because of venue concerns. The APEC summit is a
custom-made forum, as participants represent not countries but economies.
They are not addressed as presidents or premiers, but as leaders. The plan
was devised long ago, and put in place over 20 years ago to avoid such
political concerns. I thought that it would be a good opportunity and the
people of Taiwan were very supportive of this idea. However, mainland China
does not want the leaders of the two sides of the Taiwan Strait to meet at an
international event. We do not have an answer at this time. We hope that
should an opportunity arise, we could create appropriate conditions and
perhaps again consider it. As of now, we do not have another plan.

馬：我向來保持開放心態。去年我們曾提議可以在APEC峰會上安排會面
如此即可避免使用正式頭銜，以及會面場合的疑慮
APEC峰會的出席資格是依經濟體而非國家
不會以總統或總理來稱呼出席代表，而是以領袖稱之
這個安排已經存在很久了，20多年前就已經為了避免類似的政治顧慮而提出
我認為這會是個好機會，台灣人民也非常支持這個想法
不過中國並不希望兩岸領導人在國際會議上見面
這次我們還沒有答案
我們希望能有這個機會
我們可以安排適當的場合，也許可以再次考慮
但以目前而言，我們沒有其他計畫

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