※ 本文為 MindOcean 轉寄自 ptt.cc 更新時間: 2017-09-24 10:30:48
看板 Gossiping
作者 標題 [爆卦] 美媒:印度將取代中國成為金磚龍頭!
時間 Thu Sep 21 21:52:33 2017
2017.9.20
富士比:印度將取代中國成為金磚龍頭!
文中指稱:
中國正面臨巨額債務, 市場緊縮, 房市泡沫, 工資高漲等一系列問題,
以及越來越極權腐敗的政治環境, 政府濫用公權力干預市場.
相比印度有更低廉的人力, 多元化的民主社會, 擁有很大的投資潛力,
未來將取代中國成為金磚龍頭.
The recent BRICS meeting in Xiamen formed the setting for what appeared to be
a rapprochement between its two key members, India and China. It was preceded
by a rather sudden diplomatic resolution to the recent Doklam (Donglang)
crisis which saw Indian and Chinese troops step back from possible
confrontation. This was widely viewed to have been agreed at the initiative
of the Chinese, eager to secure the attendance of Narendra Modi at the
immediately following BRICS meeting.
Although the BRICS concept is long past its pomp, it is clear that China
still values it as a diplomatic forum, either for what is discussed and
agreed while it takes place, or for the appearance that emerges of the
Chinese engaged in a multilateral forum in which they take centre stage.
Indeed, China has long been the real engine behind the BRICS, given that both
Brazil and Russia (B and R respectively) were dependent on the China driven
commodity boom and South Africa (the S) is there to make up numbers. The real
quandary, however, was always India.
Without India, the "BRCS" would be harder to pronounce but perhaps a little
easier to understand. Conceived by Goldman Sachs as a Powerpoint acronym to
describe high growth emerging markets, there was always something slightly ad
hoc about the arrangement, a useful thumb sketch perhaps, shorthand for
time-poor, knowledge-light bankers and investment managers to add a patina of
granularity to their boom dependent punts. In reality an almost endless, debt
fuelled Chinese investment cascade fuelled what many mistook for a commodity
super-cycle that flattered Russia and Brazil, and made India seem like the
tortoise to China's hare.
All about the growth
The key problem with the BRICS was always that there is little that unites
them all aside from a once shared propensity for high rates of growth. This
is fine if all you seek are outlets for investment capital, but rather begs
an assessment of–in each case–what that growth implies. A recent explainer
by Michael Pettis makes the obvious, but seemingly not widely understood,
point that 'GDP does not distinguish between activity that increases a
country's wealth and activity that doesn't'. And in making this point he
obliges readers to move beyond simplistic "GDPism" towards making judgements
about the quality of investments in each case. Rising GDP, in other words,
needn't always been good news. It might in fact be disguising some very bad
news indeed.
Here also is where China and India diverge. For all the fanfare laid on for
the BRICS in Xiamen, the association has always been fundamentally driven by
the development trajectories of those two Asian supergiants; China and India.
Brazil and Russia, being primarily commodity suppliers, ride the
international consequences of growth in those other two giants, but aside
from that have little to contribute. In recent years China has driven the
global economy with its rapid investment and export focussed growth while
India has grown more slowly and organically.
The upshot is that China has huge amounts of infrastructure and an economy
that must now service enormous amounts of debt. The staggering GDP growth
figures they have achieved over many years have yet to register the
consequences of all that investment and if much of it generates little or no
return, the consequent write-downs will weigh down on China's GDP figures for
years to come. Some estimate coming write-downs in excess of 35% of GDP,
which according to Pettis' formula would mean China's economy is actually
much smaller than its reported GDP.
India, on the other hand, registered a growth rate higher than China last
year, and while India's economy is much smaller than China's right now, in
contrast to China it has a great deal of catch up growth ahead of it, and–
again unlike China–has a government with an appetite for structural reform
as a key driver for future growth, rather than debt-fuelled investment and
exports.
What would Goldman Sachs say now?
Setting aside China's effort to build the BRICS into a cooperative forum, the
same formula that generated the BRICS concept would produce a wildly
different set of results today. China, with its enormous debts, closed
capital markets, asset bubbles and increasing communist party interference in
the economy would look like an entirely different kind of investment prospect
than India, with its greater growth potential, favorable demographics, open
and pluralist society and reform minded government. Indeed, apart from both
being large economies it's hard to imagine anyone putting the two economies
in the same category anymore.
All of which provides a useful contrast between the original concept of the
BRICS as a meaningful investment destination premised largely on impressive
growth rates, and its more recent emergence as a forum for the projection of
influence. Because if the BRICS were originally premised on GDP growth, then
as long China's GDP growth becomes increasingly dependent on self-defeating
credit expansion, India looks the better bet. Furthermore, given the emphasis
China placed on securing the attendance of Narendra Modi at Xiamen, it
appears China might already understand this quite well.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/douglas...ure-of-the-brics/#7806af525d1e
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噓 : 強姦大國1F 09/21 21:53
噓 : 老實說,不可能2F 09/21 21:53
推 : 中國或成最大贏家3F 09/21 21:53
推 : show bob and vegana4F 09/21 21:53
推 : 印度整個GDP加起來都沒有一個廣東省多5F 09/21 21:54
→ : 因為廣東省GDP相當於俄羅斯,深圳市GDP相當台灣
→ : 為什麼都沒人用數字實力說話?滿滿政治腦
→ : 因為廣東省GDP相當於俄羅斯,深圳市GDP相當台灣
→ : 為什麼都沒人用數字實力說話?滿滿政治腦
→ : 很難,這論點已經很久了,然而基礎建設差距大,人民受教育8F 09/21 21:55
→ : 程度差距大,就算要比政府效能印度也會輸
→ : 程度差距大,就算要比政府效能印度也會輸
推 : 沒有制度的國家很難強大10F 09/21 21:56
噓 : 美媒不知唱衰中國多少年了......但是每年都失望XD11F 09/21 21:56
噓 : 腦殘評論 反正就是民主好棒棒 中國一定崩12F 09/21 21:56
噓 : 中國GDP造假很久了還在那邊吹13F 09/21 21:56
推 : 一樓崩潰就是要推14F 09/21 21:57
推 : 中國崩潰了15F 09/21 21:58
→ : 強姦之國比隨地大小便之國還糟16F 09/21 21:58
推 : 最後還是民主終將戰勝共產的美帝洗腦式英雄主義17F 09/21 21:59
推 : 很看好印度欸 希望他們能發展起來18F 09/21 22:00
噓 : 富士比? 這一定是山寨雜誌19F 09/21 22:02
推 : 中國或成最大贏家20F 09/21 22:02
→ : 成長是作假呀,美國用衛星評估遠比報出來的數字高...21F 09/21 22:03
噓 : 印度?? 今天是愚人節嗎22F 09/21 22:04
→ : 華人一向地下交易都很熱絡,不報稅的...23F 09/21 22:04
噓 : 哄堂大笑 拜託一下.. 中國就算真的崩潰完 還是贏印度24F 09/21 22:05
推 : 中國GDP作假帳連隔壁賣水煎包的老王也知道25F 09/21 22:06
→ : 拿巴西還俄羅斯就算了 有得討論..26F 09/21 22:06
噓 : 討厭中國是一回事 看不清現實是另一回事27F 09/21 22:06
→ : 中國已經嚴打限制都市車輛成長了,但年年創新高...28F 09/21 22:07
→ : 作假數字創新高嗎29F 09/21 22:07
推 : 又再GDP 要不要連貪污一起算30F 09/21 22:08
→ : 台灣GDP都把境外生產加進去當然年年創新高31F 09/21 22:08
噓 : 未看先猜大妓丸32F 09/21 22:09
→ : 你們都相信了,那我也信了33F 09/21 22:09
推 : 中國地方官員作出來的都能信了,你還有什麼不能信34F 09/21 22:10
→ : 不然野雞雜誌富比士隨便看看就好嚕
→ : 不然野雞雜誌富比士隨便看看就好嚕
噓 : 印度不是多元是混亂36F 09/21 22:14
推 : 印度越來越值得投資37F 09/21 22:16
推 : 印度光文盲率就堪慮38F 09/21 22:20
→ : 還有落後基礎建設 低效率的政府部門
→ : 印度貪腐也半斤八兩
→ : 還有落後基礎建設 低效率的政府部門
→ : 印度貪腐也半斤八兩
噓 : 老實說很難 看看印度的環境除非馬哈拉施特拉邦獨立出來41F 09/21 22:22
推 : 2016年全球貪腐指數排名 印度跟中國大陸分數相同42F 09/21 22:25
→ : 未來? 未來的什麼時候?43F 09/21 22:41
推 : 印度就算了 越南可能還比較有機會44F 09/21 22:41
推 : 強姦國連電力供應都有問題 取代個鬼45F 09/21 22:47
推 : 印度還是算了吧...大概那種最最低階的工作可以吧46F 09/21 22:47
→ : 超越很難但是會取代大部分的低階工作..台灣20年前遇到47F 09/21 22:48
→ : 製造業外移的力道大陸會慢慢挫勒蛋..
→ : 製造業外移的力道大陸會慢慢挫勒蛋..
推 : ...49F 09/21 22:54
→ : 以後就沒人會再講bric了50F 09/21 22:55
→ : 反串?51F 09/21 22:57
推 : 誰會信?52F 09/21 23:02
推 : 印度有成長潛力,尤其是農村人口大幅移居至城市時,需53F 09/21 23:05
→ : 求會大爆發,中國沒有什麼都市化潛力了
→ : 求會大爆發,中國沒有什麼都市化潛力了
→ : 老實說阿三不是我們看不起你,看到來自星星的傻瓜,55F 09/21 23:21
→ : 我終於明白
→ : 我終於明白
噓 : 結果印度4~6月的成長率還輸中國 掉到 5%57F 09/21 23:25
噓 : 成長率大起大落 根本沒有前途
噓 : 成長率大起大落 根本沒有前途
推 : 光印度的基建,除非你開公司 還幫 造橋 鋪路 修鐵路 搞電廠59F 09/22 01:42
→ : 中國那沒有都市化潛力?真以為處處高樓大廈?60F 09/22 03:04
→ : 印度教育是問題,但不是首要問題,光中國現今依然大量基
→ : 礎教育缺乏,卻有經濟蓬勃,代表初階的工業發展對教育需
→ : 求不高,當要更上層樓才會需要
→ : 印度教育是問題,但不是首要問題,光中國現今依然大量基
→ : 礎教育缺乏,卻有經濟蓬勃,代表初階的工業發展對教育需
→ : 求不高,當要更上層樓才會需要
推 : 看外資投資流向最明顯,人會說話騙人,錢的流向才是真的,64F 09/22 03:58
→ : 外資大舉撤出中國,印度卻是各國投資重點,玻璃別自慰了
→ : 外資大舉撤出中國,印度卻是各國投資重點,玻璃別自慰了
推 : 90.8高潮66F 09/22 05:03
→ : 不過你講其它國家還有人信,硬督...
→ : 不過你講其它國家還有人信,硬督...
推 : 中國的薪資高漲才是主因啦。反正低薪、低技術的產業,中國68F 09/22 05:16
→ : 早就不稀罕了。再看看前面某些人分享的真實案例,很多根本
→ : 不是自願撤資的,是被突如其來的新規定給逼走的。
→ : 早就不稀罕了。再看看前面某些人分享的真實案例,很多根本
→ : 不是自願撤資的,是被突如其來的新規定給逼走的。
噓 : 一堆低能怕中國怕到變成智障了71F 09/22 05:25
→ : 水啦72F 09/22 07:02
噓 : 舔共舔成這樣 看過鏡子嗎?像條狗呢73F 09/22 07:08
推 : 中國的GDP都靠印鈔稱,用美金計算的話已經負成長了74F 09/22 07:10
→ : 這個其實就是業配文....先帶風向 再揪團去投資75F 09/22 07:24
→ : 就開始新一輪的炒作
→ : 就開始新一輪的炒作
噓 : 先說結論可能性太低,喊中國房市泡沫已經快10年了,誰聽說77F 09/22 09:15
→ : 過北上廣深跌了?重慶都要飛天了好嗎?非民主制對於市場管
→ : 控就是強啊。印度真的不可能,整體人民水準,收入,比起對
→ : 岸低太多了好嗎?
→ : 過北上廣深跌了?重慶都要飛天了好嗎?非民主制對於市場管
→ : 控就是強啊。印度真的不可能,整體人民水準,收入,比起對
→ : 岸低太多了好嗎?
→ : 難!81F 09/22 09:23
噓 : 這地方外派只能男的去耶...82F 09/22 09:27
噓 : 還不是繼續Kobe83F 09/22 10:23
推 : 現在印度就十幾年前的中國啊84F 09/22 10:30
噓 : 其他國家還有可能,印度跟本阿斗加強版。85F 09/22 10:35
→ : 低階外移很正常呀!86F 09/22 14:01
推 : 錢的流向才是真的+1 不是怕中國 是支那怕外資全部撤走87F 09/22 18:47
→ : 五毛開始出來洗地
→ : 五毛開始出來洗地
噓 : 說中國崩潰都30多年了,還沒崩完啊?89F 09/22 19:32
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4樓 時間: 2017-09-22 00:24:38 (台灣)
→
09-22 00:24 TW
以前唱衰沒發生,不代表以後就不會發生,很簡單的道理,薪資,中國即將即將走完低薪資起飛的密月期,密月期一過,什麼招數都沒用,乖乖的跟台灣一樣面臨考驗
5樓 時間: 2017-09-22 00:31:38 (台灣)
→
09-22 00:31 TW
基礎建設?太簡單,就是複製以前模式而已,從海口設專區開始,這招台灣幾十年前加工區時代就玩過了,後來的大陸、越南,無不這個模式,加上印度總理莫迪在經濟發展的雄心,你還在狀況外?
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