回看板
Disp BBS
作者 j1551082 (薄荷哈亞鐵)
標題 [閒聊] 常世之塔之Roguevania
時間 Sat Apr  6 07:26:14 2024


https://store.steampowered.com/app/1393420/_/
TOKOYO: The Tower of Perpetuity on Steam
[圖]
You find yourself trapped in a mysterious tower – one that transforms its very structure every 24 hours, where you must surpass countless poor fallen  ...


是偶然在推特x上看到原畫師自己tag在首頁的這片遊戲
突然注意到遊戲掛的關鍵字…
咦？銀河惡魔Rogue

繞了一下從Steam DB下方會有關鍵字的英文
點下去還有定義

The 'Roguevania' tag on Steam signifies a specific genre of video games. These titles are characterized by their interconnected worlds, metroidvania-style exploration, and challenging roguelike elements.

這些遊戲是以互相連接的世界加上類銀河戰士惡魔城的探索與具挑戰性的Roguelike要素

https://store.steampowered.com/tags/en/Roguevania/
Roguevania
[圖]
Default sale page template for content hubs. ...

 

與metroidvania有差異，但又加上Rogue
steam遊戲關鍵字為何翻譯會是銀河惡魔城rogue就無法確認了

https://www.reddit.com/r/deadcells/comments/9rca1e/roguevania_means_rogue_castlevania_not_rogue/

這個單字倒是有人在dellcell版跟ReversEstory那邊詢問過
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1524350/ReversEstory/
ReversEstory on Steam
[圖]
ReversEstory is a 2D Roguelike action shooting game. Enjoy the freedom of 360°  flying while exploring the procedurally generated dungeons. A latitude  ...


剛好跟標題的遊戲蠻類似的，只差沒有playism

https://www.reddit.com/r/metroidvania/comments/tmu66q/roguevania/
或是metroidvania的看板也有人問，
但兩篇的結論不到十個人的討論結果
就是Deadcell很獨特，但沒人會認定他是metroidvania


而幾個關鍵字對比steamdb的定義

https://store.steampowered.com/category/metroidvania/
Metroidvania
[圖]
Default sale page template for content hubs. ...

 
正常是「類銀河戰士惡魔城」

Metroidvania is a genre of video games inspired by Super Metroid and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Players explore a non-linear interconnected world filled with secrets to discover, upgrades to acquire, and enemies to overcome. The genre's name comes from the metroid-like creatures found in Super Metroid, as well as the castlevania gothic setting. Games on this page embody the spirit of exploration and growth through player's actions.

啟發自超級銀河戰士、惡魔城X月下夜想曲，玩家可以探索充滿秘密的非線性互相連接世界
某些會需要提升能力或打倒敵人
這種類型的名稱取自metroid 加上castlevania 的哥德設定
這類遊戲主要是探索精神與玩家自身的成長


當然要談Rogue，當然要對照一下兩個like與lite的差異
既然都有關鍵字了…排在這裡
Roguelike

These titles offer procedurally generated content, where each playthrough presents unique challenges and experiences. Players often face permadeath, meaning that character progression may be lost upon death, encouraging strategic gameplay and learning from mistakes. Roguelike games typically include elements such as turn-based combat, randomized levels, and character development through loot acquisition and skill progression.X

這些遊戲以程式產生的隨機內容使玩家每次遊玩都有不一樣的挑戰與經歷
玩家通常需面對永久死亡，也就是培養半天的角色會消失不見，因此鼓勵玩家能更謹慎遊玩並從失敗中學習
Roguelike系通常以回合制戰鬥、隨機關卡、角色以技能跟從關卡中取得的資源為核心成長
這幾個要素為主


Rogue-lite
which is characterized by procedurally generated content, permanent death, and incremental upgrades. In these games, players embark on a challenging journey through procedurally generated levels or worlds, where every attempt may result in death but also brings experience and progress. This tag encompasses a diverse range of genres, from action to strategy and RPG, each with unique mechanics that add depth and replayability to the roguelike formula.

一樣是以程式產生的隨機內容與永久死亡，再加上一個可以累積增加遊戲內容的要素
這類遊戲同樣是讓玩家遊玩隨機產生的關卡或世界，不論成功或失敗都可以回收經驗或進度
這類遊戲從動作、策略到RPG都有各自不同的延伸設計，因此增加對Roguelike玩法的重玩性


最後是我個人覺得應該要跟rogue玩法分流的Arcade

The 'Arcade' tag on SteamDB lists games that offer simple, fun, and often competitive gameplay experiences. These games are reminiscent of classic arcade titles, with a focus on instant gratification, high replay value, and quick sessions. The Arcade tag encompasses a wide variety of genres including shooters, racers, puzzlers, and action games, among others.

不過街機類嚴格來說就是快速遊戲、高刺激性跟重玩價值，跟roguelike系顯著不同處就是遊戲類型

當然會一起講就是有些action roguelike 根本踏到Arcade去了

雖然說關鍵字好像可以由廠商跟玩家設定，前者就算用機器人洗出來的都可以放個好看的關鍵字
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2454940/_/
攻城.三国.志 on Steam
[圖]
379座城池，谋略攻城，你能一统三国么？ ...

沉浸模擬呃？

後者則常有人掛上搞笑用tag導致分類不準確
https://store.steampowered.com/app/333600/NEKOPARA_Vol_1/
NEKOPARA Vol. 1 on Steam
[圖]
What's NEKOPARA? Why, it's a cat paradise! Kashou Minaduki, the son of a long line of Japanese confection makers moved out to open his own shop " ...

類魂？

當然商店上面排行前三理論上都是準的啦

我目前結論是
這個關鍵字目前應該是steam特有的，多數遊戲分析都還沒加入這種更偏門分類法

除了deadcell抄…我是說，恰到好處的模仿了惡魔城的諸多要素，但也剛好沒有辦法回頭加上沒啥銀河戰士要素

其實這個關鍵字好像沒創造出一個新類型…以本篇貼的兩個遊戲來看，其實就一種有永久死亡的動作遊戲而已…


繁體中文tag還能保留Rogue這個字倒是讓我很感動

西恰有一篇「類rogue遊戲怎麼翻譯比較好」

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1681430/_/
RoboCop: Rogue City on Steam
[圖]
Become the legendary part man, part machine, all cop hero and deliver justice in Old Detroit. ...

機器戰警惡棍城市
機械戰警暴戾城市
看來惡棍跟暴戾也可以嗎(嚴重誤)

直接用原詞就好了，就像日文片假名根本是直接念出來差不多，雖然日文的特性又是另一回事…
雖然有些人或許會認為對話中英夾雜很怪，但至少比強行全中譯化精準

音譯再簡稱簡到類都不見了實在不行

目前不應該翻譯/難以翻譯的英文名詞清單：
Rougelike
metroidvania
Speedrun  與time attack
back swing
cooldown (對比Backswing)
survivor (上面說踏到模糊地帶的那類型，同時也沒真的被列入)

而像Tvtrope 的每個都很雞掰的標題也是如此
Schmuck Bait
Lampshade Hanging
deadpan snarker

這些詞每個都很讚，但要說轉成中文會變啥我就真的不知道了


最後

不要問我常世之塔跟ReversEstory好不好玩…
希望有玩過的可以分享一下

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2607060/From_Glory_To_Goo/
Save 20% on From Glory To Goo on Steam
[圖]
From Glory To Goo is a Sci-Fi Survival RTS set on an alien world. Serve as humanity's bulwark by establishing a colony and supporting your colonists s ...


另外還有一個四月二號剛出有試玩版的RTS roguelike，似乎還蠻讚的

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 49.216.174.13 (臺灣)
※ 作者: j1551082 2024-04-06 07:26:14
※ 文章代碼(AID): #1c48YVev (Steam)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Steam/M.1712359583.A.A39.html
→ kawazima8869: 看不懂你想表達啥= =1F 04/06 12:06
→ comodada: 所以你是想討論rogue-like跟rogue-lite的分別嗎
順便討論Arcade降 又跑去討論Metroidvania 然後標題的遊戲跟你的內文無關這樣嗎?2F 04/06 15:52
→ j1551082: 主題是好奇「銀河惡魔城Rogue」Roguevania這詞的成因，順便分享些我個人新發現的遊戲這樣，我是覺得事出必有因，有關鍵字代表有足夠認可，但現在查又還沒到真的成為分類的一種，至於某種吐槽我就不刻意提了，剛收到有人說這好像是Deadcell剛出創的噱頭，有點妙5F 04/06 16:39
→ comodada: 喔喔 大概理解意思惹10F 04/06 16:56
推 stkissstone: 有點離題 這篇的內容分成兩篇討論定義跟問遊戲各自OK11F 04/06 17:50

--
作者 j1551082 的最新發文:
點此顯示更多發文記錄