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※ 引述《nick360320 (宅肥矮窮醜油臭禿廢魯)》之銘言：
: ※ 引述《ext66 (暗夜)》之銘言：
: : 真是夠了，政經剛剛又有來賓在打
: : 「柯文哲在辯論會上拿出來的律師函是真是假、不給記者拍攝」等莫名其妙的問題
: : 我說阿，所有的東西作者官網就有了，
: : 也有當年柯文哲說的"作者之後會正式說明"
: : (其實就是長版的律師函，媒體沒報只是因為事情很清楚沒爆點了吧？)
: : 上節目之前做個功課有這麼難嗎？
: : https://imgur.com/gallery/OaKtpH9
: : 沒發現在作者官網哪裡的話，抓出來給你們看了。
: : 來源：
: : https://ethan-gutmann.com/ko-wen-je-interview/
: 先附個Gutmann回覆的影片連結
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-XUXdPNJW4
: 影片中不難看出Gutmann對柯的尊敬
: 還有對記者的行為感到不滿
: 我覺得影片比信件打臉更真實啦
: 情緒跟用字都假不了
: 最近要考托福
: 下面逐字稿+翻譯
: (如果要後面Gutmann噴記者的逐字稿我過幾天再補)
: 超。懶人包：
: 2004當時中國整天在宣傳器官移植，
: 柯為了病人去中國看看情況，
: 結果意外發現有法輪功被迫害，
: 為了避免這種來路不明的器官，
: 他弄了一個表格讓中國醫生不能夠隱瞞器官來源，
: Gutmann大為讚賞。
: In my book, I did not describe Dr. Ko as an organ broker.I describe him
: as a man of SINGULAR COURAGE. Dr. Ko basically admitted that
: he had stumbled into something terrible in China. He was looking into
: the quality of care for transplant patients. Elderly people in Taiwan who
: wanted to get an organ, China is obviously a go-to place. To wait in Taiwan
: on the list was a death sentence to for somebody who needed a new liver.
: 在我的書中，我並沒有描述柯醫師是器官仲介。
: 我描述他是一個有獨特非凡勇氣的人。
: 柯醫師基本上是坦承，他曾經在中國意外遇到一些可怕的事。
: 他當時正在研究移植病患的照護品質。
: 對台灣想要找到合適器官的老人家來說，中國顯然是一個適合的地方。
: 僅待在台灣排隊等待移植，對需要換肝的人來說，是跟死刑差不多的。
: This is back in 2004, 2005. China is out there advertising prices,
: advertising care. So at some point, he is in the Mainland and he goes to
: a hospital and he talks to the doctors, and they go through some sort of
: getting-to-know-you process ,and at the end of that process they say,
: "well, look, we will give your patients from your clinic or whatever, we'll
: give them a Chinese price, about half the foreigner price." But they also say
: "we also understand your concerns about organ quality." He was looking out
: for his patients or his clinic.
: 時間回到2004,2005。中國正在外面宣傳(器官移植)的價格和照護。
: 所以當時柯是有去中國，在一家醫院見了一些醫生，
: 經過一些互相認識的過程，在最後那些醫生說：
: “我會給你們的病人中國價，差不多是外國人的半價。”
: 但他們也說，“我們也瞭解你對器官品質的要求。”
: In China, you negotiate. Everybody negotiates. Politicians negotiate,
: businessmen negotiate, doctors negotiate, my mother negotiates for the price
: of a banana for about 5 minutes in a Beijing market.
: And there's nothing hidden about that or surreptitious or even evil about it.
: It is simply the way things of business is done in China.
: 在中國，大家都會討價還價。不管是政客，商人，醫生，甚至我老媽都會在北京的市場
: 為了一串香蕉討價還價5分鐘。這不是什麼隱晦或見不得人甚至是邪惡的事。這只是
: 中國人處理事情的方式。
: What he was told though, was something he did not expect. Dr. Ko was basically
: told "you don't have to worry about the quality of these organs because
: they are Falun Gongs'.
: These people they don't drink, they don't smoke, they practice very healthy
: Chi-gong. Everybody knows the Falon Gong are arrested with no, often aren't
: arrested at all. They just simply disappear. They were taken in. Everybody
: knows they're being tortured. I mean, this is not a secret in Taiwan. This
: was an appalling thing, a terrible thing that he walked into here.
: 但接下來他聽到的，卻是他沒料想到的事。
: “你不用擔心器官的品質啦，這些都是法輪功的，
: 他們不喝酒不抽菸，還會練健康氣功。”
: 大家都知道法輪功會被逮補，不是，通常不會被逮補。他們只會消失。
: 他們被抓去，被虐待。這在台灣不是秘密。
: 但這一件駭人可怕的事，他還是剛好遇到了。
: He did something about it. He created a form, an electronic form on his
: computer and put a lot of work into this, which Chinese doctors would have to
: use, which identify where every organ came from. He said, "this will only take
: care of 95% of the problem." He wasn't referring to criminal being harvested,
: he was referring to Falun Gong being harvested. He was basically saying this
: would shame mainland doctors. This would give a sense of transparency to the
: process. This would make them accountable.
: 對於這件事，柯做到了一件事。
: 他弄了一個表格，在他電腦上的電子表格。
: 他很用心的做了這件事，讓中國醫生必須去確認每個器官的來源。
: 柯說：“這只能解決95％的問題。”
: 他並不是說那些割出器官的犯人，而是那些法輪功的人。
: 他根本上是說，這樣(確認來源)會讓醫生羞愧。
: 這樣會讓流程更透明，讓這些醫生能夠負責。
: There's no other reason that he created this for. In a sense, he was trying to
: do what the transplantation society tried to do only over the last 2 years,
: which was to bring accountability to the system, and he was trying to do this
: alone. This is not a figment of our imagination and we both understood exactly
: what we're talking about. I played with that form, I moved up and down and I
: cursored around all over his computer. My researcher did too. I described him
: as a man of singular courage because this was an act of courage and was a
: profoundly dangerous act. In fact, he told me that he was banned from the
: mainland.
: 他弄了這些表格，完全不為別的。
: 某種意義上，他那時候就已經在做器官移植社群在過去2年嘗試做的事，
: (影片是2015)
: 也就是讓器官移植體系更可靠，而他是自己一個人嘗試去做。
: 這不是我們虛構的，而我們(作者與他的研究員)都知道我們在說什麼。
: 我曾經用過那表格，我也掃遍他的電腦。我的研究員也這麼做。
: 我描述他是一個有獨特非凡勇氣之人，
: 因為這是一件展現勇氣的事，也是一個格外危險的舉動。
: 事實上，柯告訴我他因此被中國封殺了。
: Let's go to 2013. I'm getting closer with my book, and at one point, I wanted
: to put out an article, and I wrote up a text of what I remembered of our
: interview. It's called "a tale of two surgeons". I sent this text to my
: researcher Lee Shy. Lee Shy added on a little note to Dr. Ko. "Under the
: circumstances that we don't mentioned your name ,specific situations ,or any
: details, is it okay to write this content?" That's number 1. Number 2, "Is
: his draft of this story below, and it's below, according to reality? Is it
: factual? Because of the time we didn't record and we didn't ask too much about
: this direction, so there's some situations we're not too clear about. We just
: remember the general drift. Could you take a look and tell us where the story
: is inaccuracies. If it's incorrect, how should it be correctly stated?"
: Dr. Ko's answer is right above it. "The story seems okay."
: 我們回到2013，我正在寫我的書，某時，我想要寫出這邊文章。
: 我寫了一整段關於我們(與柯)會談的篇幅，叫做"2位外科醫生的故事"。
: 我先將這篇文章傳給我的研究員，他加上了一些附註，寄給柯醫師。
: “在不提到您的名字，特定的狀況，以及任何具體細節的情況下，
: 我們可以寫出這些內容嗎？”這是第一個附註問題。第二個，
: “這些都是事實嗎？在當時我們沒有錄音也並沒有問到這方面，
: 所以有些狀況我們並不是太清楚，僅記得大略。
: 您可以告訴我們有什麼不正確嗎？如果有，那正確的是如何呢？”
: 柯醫師的回答就如同上面，“這故事看起來ok。”
: I defy anyone to find significant differences in what's being published here.
: Then in January, 2014. The request to identify Dr. Ko by his real name was
: granted by Dr. Ko. Again, there's a long explanation. "We wanted to ask you
: if you were willing to give us the permission to use your name when
: mentioning the things you told us. In the past, we just referred to you as an
: anonymous Taiwan doctor, but it is much more credible with the name. This will
: help the evidence. You would be doing a great service. Maybe even help save
: some people's lives." What is his answer?
: "OK. For what I say, I can be responsible."
: 我不相信有人可以找到這跟書上說的不一樣啦。
: 2014年一月，請求標明柯醫師的本名，獲得柯醫師再次同意。
: 這邊有很長的解釋。
: “我們想問您，是否可以允許我們在提到您的故事時，
: 使用您的本名？過去我們提到您時，適用匿名台灣醫師，
: 但如果用真名會更可信。這能幫助我們證明，對我們是很大的貢獻，
: 甚至可以拯救到一些人。”
: 柯醫師的回答呢？
: ”OK。 我說過的話我負責。“
: We ask him for a headshot for the book, and "my best wishes to you", this is
: Dr. Ko's response. Said the pictures for the book. Now any time in any of
: these three responses, he could have come back and say, "just hang on a
: minute." No, he did not. And actually, I don't think that speaks badly about
: his character. I think that speaks well of his character. I think he's
: actually a very honest man.
: 我們請他給我們一張大頭照拿來書上用，”祝你順利“，
: (拿出照片)
: 這就是柯醫師的回應，說這是給書的照片。
: 其實在這3次回覆中，他大可以退縮掉然後說，”欸等一下等一下“，
: 但他沒有。
: 事實上，我不認為這是他代表個性差。
: 我認為，這代表他的好個性。
: 我認為他事實上是個非常誠實的人。
: ------------------------------打逐字稿打累了-------------------------
: 作者後面都在噴媒體有夠爛，
: 希望大家能真的去關注這個亂摘活人器官的問題。


感謝前半段翻譯, 後半段讓小弟我來接手

The truth that he signed off on was in this book the way the
interview was done was in this book. They didn't want to look at the book.
The book was just a prop and that offends me because it is not supposed to be
a prop this is actually supposed to be a book that people read. I understand
that there are language differences and all the rest of it. And I understand
that reporters are stressed there's a 24 hour news site call it all that
stuff but the truth is this is their responsibility is to get it right. They
didn't do their homework here.

所有背書內容皆在訪談中(延上文未完成的段落)


他們(記者)想都不想看這本書，對他們而言這本書只是一個
道具，這樣的行為冒犯到我 因為這本書應該是要讀的而不是當道具一樣使用。
我理解語言上面的落差、也理解記者對新聞來源需求的壓力，
但是事實上記者有責任要把新聞內容報導正確，我認為記者並沒有做好功課。


I was asked for a statement by the Taiwan Central News Agency.
It's basically the equivalent of a PEO over here. I put together a one
paragraph statement had it translated into the most brilliant Chinese and
said if you run this you run as exclusive you write it in full. You wrote it
with my Chinese translation. They said oh yes yes yes we'll do all that. And
then I waited and they didn't run. So and I have e-mails to prove that too.
You know the bottom line here is that they weren't looking for anything like
this. They were looking for a soundbite.

<中央通訊社>當時要求我提供聲明，我提供了一份翻譯成中文的聲明並告知對方
在獨家新聞的狀況下不得省略或修改聲明中任何內容。對方雖然同意，但並未刊登。
我這邊還有當初的通訊內容可以證明。 他們從一開始就不想要完整的聲明內容，
他們只想擷取他們想用的部分(sound bite)。
sound bite : a shourt recorded statement that is broadcast on a television
or radio news program.

They were looking for a knife to throw or they were looking reporters as
reporters will do is just like you and Dr. Ko fight, that's what they wanted.
But I do not want to fight, this as a witness I respect,   it's a man of
respect. What I want is the truth and we have a saying in English, truth is
the first casualty of war, and certainly that goes for political campaigns
too. I don't think it's a crime to be careless in this world. I don't think
it's a crime to be a little politically naive. Mature adults can accept the
Dr. Ko's not a perfect human being. I don't think he would presents himself
that way and I'm not a perfect reporter, but I think the idea is that we can
settle on this one area.

他們在找是否有能夠拿來做武器攻擊的地方或者是看能否引起柯文哲與他人的紛爭。
我本人不想與柯文哲起紛爭，他是一個我敬重的證人也是一個自重的人。
我所想要的只有事實真相。
在英文中有一句諺語，戰爭中沒有真相事實，這句話同樣適用於選戰中。
我不認為對世界漠不關心或是對政治上有些許的天真是犯罪, 成熟的人能接受柯文哲
並非完人。我也不認為柯文哲會自認完美，當然我也不是一個完美的報導者，但是
在這篇訪談中我跟他有著同樣的共識。

Something happened important during that interview and I believe
that there will be others to come. There will be new witnesses coming down
the pike all the time. I'm certainly happy to put an asterisk by certain
statements. Was he looking out for individual patients perhaps not perhaps he
was just looking in for his clinic. Did he go to karaoke bar with the Chinese
surgeons. Well actually when you negotiate things in Chinese that's from my
experience about how you do it but I really don't care. I'm happy to say he
didn't go to a karaoke bar. That's a campaign issue. It's a frivolous
campaign issue.

有重要的事情發生在訪談的當下，我也相信之後也會有重要的事情發生。
在未來(coming down the pike)也會有其他的證人出現。
我十分願意強調重申一些論述:

沒有去唱卡拉ok.
這整件事是政治問題。

The truth is did he make appointments for his patients afterwards.
Did he make him at that hospital. I'm happy to put an asterisk on any of
that. And you know why. it's not central to the story.
What is central to this story is he found out stumbled into discovered
that there were Falun Gong organs for sale in at least one hospital in 2005.
This is before Kilgore Montasser report. This is before epic Times report and
Sujiatun. This is a report before any Falun Gong practitioners any Falun Gong
practitioners which had appeared during that time and Ming -Wei or whoever
was debriefing them it wasn't taken seriously even within the practitioner
community. There was a denial about this issue. So this was something he
stumbled into at a very unusual time.

重要的是他回台之後是否有跟他的病人預約? 是否有在醫院治療了他的病人? 如果需要
我很樂意說明強調這些事情，但是你知道的，這不是故事的重心。
故事的重心在於柯文哲不可預期地發現至少有一間醫院在2005販賣法輪功活體器官。
這件事情發生的時間點遠早於一些新聞報導、甚至比任何修習法輪功的人更早知道(初期
法輪功內部的訪談中揭露最初這件事情沒有被重視甚至被直接否認)
所以這個故事是說明他在一個時間點被捲入一個事件。

My feeling was that the truth couldn't come out during the
election and that nobody cared about the actual issue that I wanted to talk
about. Not that it was approached by at least 10 reporters not one of them
asked me a question about Falun Gong organ harvesting, wego organ harvesting,
and Tibetan organ harvesting. I estimate that about 10 people a day are being
harvested for their organs in China that are prisoners of conscience. This is
a very serious issue. This is a crime against humanity long after Dr. Ko is
in the history books. This will really be in the history books. It is not
just Dr.Ko Who stumbled into something terrible. At this point, I mean if
anything good has come out of this election. It is the now all of Taiwan has
stumbled into something really terrible, and if you think that's terrible, BANG
IT, it's that simple. That's all. Taiwan has to do. You can prevent people
from going to China and if Taiwan did if they followed Israel's example
they'd be setting an amazing precedent. This is up to them and I really do
hope that Dr. Ko will be one of the people leading that effort.

我感覺這個真相無法在選舉期間水落石出，也沒有任何人關心這個我所討論的真實事件。
此事件中至少10位以上記者向我詢問，但沒有一個記者詢問活體器官的問題。



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